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Game slots / components of the gamefest

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libervisco's picture
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Joined: 2006-05-04

Let me first clear up the basic contextual hierarchy of the Freedomware Gamefest 2007 event.

It is divided into separate game components each with their own assigned players (individually, in groups or in teams) and their own two stages; qualifications and final tournament. In essence this gamefest is not a one tournament, but a multiple tournaments running in parallel - because we have multiple games included.

Initial idea was for each game slot, or a component (as you wish), to match actual game. So Nexuiz would be one game component of the festival, OpenArena another and Tremulous yet another.

However, there is another way too. We could have multiple components per game. There could then be a Nexuiz "Capture The Flag" component, a Nexuiz "Classic Deathmatch" component and a Nexuiz "Team Deathmatch" component. Basically as many modes the game officially supports as many components we can have for them. All would have completely separate qualifications and final tournaments and independent schedules.

Third option is to consolidate and have only two components per one actual game, an individual-based and team-based. So individual-based Nexuiz component would include any game mode that involves player against player gaming (like classic free for all deathmatch). The team-based one would involve playing in teams (like team deathmatch, capture the flag etc.).

Tremulous is a special case though as it only allows team play and therefore can only have one game slot assigned to it.

Thoughts?

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Joined: 2007-09-10
Do them all, and institute points to allow for even more

There is a summary below which provides the short version of this post.

Option 4: Or we might attempt both option two AND option three. We might have separate tournaments for each type of game play supported by a game.. for all the games. And we might also have yet more tournaments to handle the mixed modes.

Option 5: We may make the multi-mode "tournament" instead simply be a multi-mode winner (like an all-around winner for that particular game). That winner can be determined automatically based on points.

Option 6: Alternatively, the winner of the multi-mode tournament can be determined after a mini tournament held only between those that did very well in the single-mode tournaments (maybe the top two from each single-mode tournament). In this way, the option two single-mode tournaments would serve as qualifiers for the multi-mode tournament. Those that qualify for the multi-mode tournament would be those that had proven themselves to be very good in at least one of the mode. This option is nothing but option one except using option two single-mode tournaments as qualifiers.

Option 7: is to come up with a point total winner for the overall gamefest. We would need a point system naturally. The best candidate on which to base points would be to use option 2 points and some additional points for those that qualified for option 6.

My vote is to do option 4 (ie, options 2 and 3), option 5 (which is like option 1 but determined automatically based on points from the results of option 2), option 6, and option 7. What this amounts to is to holding a tournament for every mode of every game (option 2). Giving out points for these single-mode tournament. These points will be used to declare a game winner as stated in option 5 (which is similar to option 1), to qualify for option 6 multi-mode tournament, and as the *main* point component to determine the fest option 7 winner. Then we have the option 6 multi-mode tournaments. These extra points form the remainer of the contribution for determining the gamefest option 7 winner.

Option two point totals should be composed of points from the qualifiers (if we have them) as well as additional points from the tournament.

I think I was precise, but it does get confusing with so many option numbers.

** Short summary: Do option two: single-mode tournaments. Plus institute a point system so that more winners can be determined. These points from the single-mode tournaments help determine game overall winners and a gamefest overall winner (which includes cummulative points from all the different games). Additionally, per game, we use these single-mode tournaments as qualifiers for a separate and additional multi-mode tournament (like option one but using the option two results as qualifiers).

Teams are handled in an analogous way [I haven't thought too much about how details for teams might differ; I hope there is an analogous way].

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Joined: 2007-09-10
Maybe this makes my vote/wish above clearer

To make the above a little more concrete... [Note that in this discussion I don't differentiate between individual modes and team modes, something we will probably want to do.]

We have (qualifiers and) a tournament for:
-- Nexuiz "Classic Deathmatch"
-- Nexuiz "Team Deathmatch"
-- Nexuiz "Capture The Flag"
-- Nexuiz "Arena"
-- Nexuiz "Key Hunt"
-- Nexuiz "Last Man Standing"
-- Nexuis ....
-- OpenArena "Free For All"
-- OpenArena "Team Deathmatch"
-- OpenArena ...
-- [other games and modes we might have]

Determining winners for each of the above tournaments is option two.

Additionally, we can create a point system. Points are rewarded in each of these tournaments based on different criteria (depends on particular game and mode).

For each game separately, we deduce that game's winner using the points from the single-mode tournaments for all the modes that comprise that particular game. For example, we use the point results from Nexuiz "Classic Deathmatch" (tournament and qualifiers), Nexuiz "Arena" (tournament and qualifiers), etc to determine a point winner for Nexuiz. An analogous example would result in a point winner for OpenArena. ETC. This is option five.

For each game separately, we have a game multi-mode tournament. Those that qualify for this tournament are those meeting certain point or rank requisites from the single-mode tournaments above that pertain to the particular game under consideration. Ex, top points finishers in Nexuiz "Classic Deathmatch" (tournament and qualifiers), Nexuiz "Arena" (tournament and qualifiers), and all other Nexuiz single-mode tournament *qualify* for the multi-mode Nexuiz tournament. This tournament results in an additional set of winners and some more points. This is option six.

Finally, we use the point totals principally from all the individual single-mode tournaments (option two) and also from the multi-mode tournaments (option six) to derive a gamefest tournament all-around winner (option seven). Note that this gamefest winner is calculated solely on points (like for option five) because it makes little sense to have a tournament when we are talking about different games.. unless you want to do that -- to force top game finishers to play each other's games to determine a gamefest winner!

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Joined: 2007-09-10
By the way, the point

By the way, the point system can be very simple. For example, we might give 10 points for reaching the finals, 5 for reaching the semi's, 3 for quarterfinals, etc.

We can also give points for wins or frags or anything else occuring throughout the qualifiers if we have qualifiers.

libervisco's picture
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Joined: 2006-05-04
The points system is

The points system is already there. We can't have multiple points systems now.. That would make this fest scary for me, let alone others.

So your vote from what I gather is for single mode to be one game slot, but with a resolve that would allow a winner of all modes, based either on points or on a multi-mode match between single mode winners.

Simplest way in my view is the points system. It would be a matter of determining how many points originate from that particular game and we have ourselves the chart and a winner.

But if we have single mode winners compete for the all-mode winners position, it may be a bit more interesting, but it would ignore points for this particular purpose and would present a complexity of determining which mode will be used for an all-mode play? I guess they can vote on that.

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Joined: 2007-09-10
The more the merrier

I may comment on point system later, but not with the intent to change anything for anyone. You'll know what I mean if/when I post.

It seems you nailed my view for the most part.

Here is what you missed:
-- I would like to do both: point and tournament for multimode. Why? Because I like having different titles. The point winner is automtic and does not require any further work. So the question is if to plan for the additional tournament. Normally, tournaments are what ultimately determine winners because people like combatants to be tested in head-to-head competition. People like seeing who remains cool under fire. People also frequently like to gamble their life savings away. Alright, so you understand this, but I do prefer to have the tournament plus a computer crank out an alternate type of winner based on point system.
-- The other thing you didn't mention was a gamefest winner. Maybe you didn't mention it because the point recipe I mentioned asked that the multi-mode head-to-head tournament be held. If we do this tournament, or even if we don't, I would like to see a gamefest top point scorer. BTW, this top scorer is implied if we have a point formula (you said we do), whether or not anyone officially says there was such a winner.

A multi-mode tournament format is not obvious (I didn't think it through earlier). Here are some options:
-- players randomly are put into a mode and compete based on the rules for that mode.
-- the first round of single elimination is done in one mode, the next round in another mode, etc. In theory it does not matter the order because to win, you will have to win in every single round without losing. In practice it matters because the odds of getting past a particular round are diminished if in that round you face the champ at that style of game play.
-- you can have opponents play two matches, one in each of the modes for which they qualified/were champ (or runner up). We would have to consider tie-breakers for these double matches. The issue here is if someone qualifies from more than one category.. in fact, this is something I have not looked at.. what if the same person qualifies multiple times? We might let the person pick one single-mode area to qualify in and then ignore their entry for all the other modes. Another very strange possibility and fair in some ways, is to have a person with multiple qualification paths get multiple slots in the multi-mode single elimination tournament. Weird, I know, but fair.
-- players can play against every other player. We keep tie-breaker points. The overall winner among all the head-to-heads wins. So this would be doing a head-to-head but in a format like how qualifiers might be played.. like in season play, where everyone plays everyone else.

libervisco's picture
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Joined: 2006-05-04
Jose wrote: I would like
Jose wrote:

I would like to do both: point and tournament for multimode. ...

We can do both. The final winner of the all-modes would be one which wins the multimodes, which would actually reflect in their points too, which sort of reconciles the two. Smiling

Jose wrote:

The other thing you didn't mention was a gamefest winner. ...

I did actually. The points system would determine The Ultimate Freedomware Gamefest 2007 player - it's the one with most points. Smiling

Jose wrote:

A multi-mode tournament format is not obvious ...

I don't anticipate many modes per game. There might actually be only two or three at most. This means that the maximum number of players for multimode matches is probably not going to be above 3.

So we can keep it simple there. We might simply play as many matches as there are modes (and hence players) and then see who ranks up the best.

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Joined: 2007-09-10
Why complicate things with

Why complicate things with so many options?
I think the easiest solution is to consider each "game component" as a separate game (i.e option 2 I think).
ex:
-Nexuiz Team deathmatch
-Nexuiz FFA
-Tremulous
-Armagetron Team deathmatch
-Armagetron some other team-based mod
-Armagetron FFA
-etc

This needs to be decided on quickly, as well as the maps, etc.
Missing games can be added next year depending on player feedback. Smiling

Because we can't start scheduling until we know exactly what is going to be played and who plays what!
Unless of course we make it more festival-like than tournament-like... ^^

libervisco's picture
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Joined: 2006-05-04
That's actually the option

That's actually the option we've been discussing, except that we also added multi-mode matches for a game once the modes have been won.

Like if we have a Nexuiz CTF and a Nexuiz TDM and we have winners among them (two teams) then them two play again two times, once CTF and once TDM to determine who wins Nexuiz overall.

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Joined: 2007-09-10
Well, I wouldn't mind that

Well, I wouldn't mind that solution too, it's just less standard.

We need more feedback from participants. Sad
And if we don't get it, well... maybe a poll with 4-5 votes...or dictator-style decision. ^^

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