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german translation coming along

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Joined: 2007-02-10

i did a major push forward on the german translation yesterday and today. the main pages are now all translated in the wiki (if i did not miss anything).

hopefully, someone else than me will find the time to see it through, check for style improvements and typos.

cheers,

luzi

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Joined: 2006-03-28
How do I access it? Can I

How do I access it? Can I get there via HTTP and do I have to use CVS or SVN for that?
If it's possible that I can access then I could spend some time tonight and/or tomorrow having a look through it.

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Joined: 2007-02-10
http://wiki.getgnulinux.org/
free-zombie's picture
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I just started FAQ

I just started FAQ translation; I'll probably proof-read your text soon.

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Thanks for the link Luzi.

Thanks for the link Luzi. And since there's nothing on TV anyway (or at least nothing I'd be aware of) I'll start looking through the pages right away. Can't promise I'll finish everything tonight, but the weekend isn't over yet, right? ;-)

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Joined: 2006-03-28
Okay, I made a tiny change

Okay, I made a tiny change here: http://wiki.getgnulinux.org/de/index.php?title=Linux
I changed it from ...oder auf ältere Computern ausgelegt sind... to ...oder auf ältere Computer ausgelegt sind...

Another change here: http://wiki.getgnulinux.org/de/index.php?title=Windows
From Die Liste der Einschränkungen ist lange... to Die Liste der Einschränkungen ist lang...

Also I found three sie and one ihre on the mentioned pages which I capitalized since it's addressing the reader.

If I'm wrong about this please just undo, but I guess that should be the correct form.

I'll check the other pages tomorrow, now it's time for a DVD I guess. ;-)

Gustavo's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-11
Access to the PM

Hello, German translators!

I'd like to create accounts in the project manager for those who are willing to stay as translators. It will help you to keep track of many things.

To avoid off-topic posts in this thread, please send me an email to gustavo#getgnulinux. All I need to know is "Hey, I'm Luzi/reptiler/free-zombie and I want an account".

Cheers!

ariadacapo's picture
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Joined: 2006-07-13
Great work!

Thanks folks, for giving this translation a push. It's great to see it come up!
This week I'll try to set-up a German SVN repository with proper HTML files. When completion nears, it'll be time to think of a German domain name to host the translation too.
Cheers!
Olivier.

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Joined: 2007-02-10
german translation done (?!)

hi,

many typos later, the german translation is now pretty much done Smiling (only missing pages are "Legal Info", "FAQ", "Changelog" etc.)

One of the problems I had was the many external links pointing to english ressources. I dropped in german equivalents where i could, and marked the other ones with "(engl.)", so that the readers will at least know that the link is pointing to an english page.

now, how do you guys handle the wiki->HTML transition? ist this all done by hand?

and how do i check out SVN?

cheers,
luzi

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Joined: 2006-07-13
Well done! As always I'm

Well done!

As always I'm one step late instead of one step ahead... I did not expect such early completion.

Luzi wrote:

One of the problems I had was the many external links pointing to english ressources. I dropped in german equivalents where i could, and marked the other ones with "(engl.)", so that the readers will at least know that the link is pointing to an english page.

Yes, I think we all encountered this problem on translations. With time we will get better (be more flexible on translations while staying coherent).

Luzi wrote:

now, how do you guys handle the wiki->HTML transition? ist this all done by hand?

ugh, yes. I intend to make this easier by maybe switching to a simpler kind of wiki (one that could be plugged straight into html pages), but right now there is no time. I'll help along all I can with the transfer, especially internal links etc.

I will be back within 24 hours with a German SVN and a better description of the SVN system and what needs to be done for the translation.
Thanks a lot
Olivier.

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Joined: 2007-02-10
Quote: ugh, yes. I intend
Quote:

ugh, yes. I intend to make this easier by maybe switching to a simpler kind of wiki (one that could be plugged straight into html pages), but right now there is no time. I'll help along all I can with the transfer, especially internal links etc.

OK, no problem. the traditional way to do it would be with translation templates, I think. does anyone know if rosetta (ubuntu's translation system on launchpad) is open to third party projects? if yes, this might be worth considering (that could attract additional ubuntu-translators, too).

Quote:

I will be back within 24 hours with a German SVN and a better description of the SVN system and what needs to be done for the translation.

no need to hurry. maybe it's better to let the translation stay in the wiki for a while, so that other people get a chance to make corrections.

Luzi

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SVN up

I have now set an SVN system up.
The address is http://svn.getgnulinux.org/de
And it is possible to browse the repository from our WebSVN install (there are even RSS feeds for your convenience).

Using the SVN is not too difficult. If you are not too comfortable with CLI (like me) you can use a GUI client such as eSvn, which also details the command-line code.
Anyone may view files but only registered users may edit them; so please contact me for a username (unfortunately I don't know how to implement automatic registration). Note that each user can work on all translations present in the SVN directory.

At the moment the files are simply a copy of the English website, except for the homepage which I quickly translated to see how it looks.
The important things to do for the translation are:
* Transfer page contents, obviously ;-) The most important is the main content, the header can be done quickly once the steps below are completed.
* decide on the translation of the directories: this needs to be done carefully to make the urls both relevant and likely to catch keyword search. For example, in English the page "Making the Switch to Linux" as a url "switch_to_linux"
* Fill in the code for the translation tabs... for each page, we need the full url and a description of the page. This is going to be used on each other translation. The current file (containing the info for FR, CA, EN and ES) is in our "Useful files" SVN repository at http://svn.getgnulinux.org/useful .

That's it! I do not have much time but I will try to help all along with every step. I think all of this will last at least 3 weeks, so there is plenty of time to correct any typos you come across ;-)

Of course we should not forget the domain name, so if you have proposals (I see you have suggestions on the German wiki homepage) please bring them up! (I will pay for the domain).

I hope this is neither confusing nor discouraging =) I keep promising but things are really coming: one day the translations will be easier. I am not sure whether a system like Rosetta would be efficient, but I can't discuss this immediately.

Thanks a lot!
Olivier.

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Joined: 2006-03-28
I've just seen the

I've just seen the suggestions for the german domain and in my oppinion they are too long. The problem here is that german tends to be pretty complicated sometimes. I also tried to think about a nice short name, but couldn't come up with much.
I have one, which would be possible, but I don't know how far away the translated name should be from the original.

Well, I guess I'll just throw it in, it translated something like "now GNU/Linux": jetztgnulinux.de
This said, I have to admit that I also can't get really warm with that, but that's the problem with german, as mentioned above.
But, if possible, we should try to keep it short. Otherwise it'll be hard to remember and the kids in school will have problems to tell their classmates which site they really gotta visit. ;-)

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I agree with them being too

I agree with them being too long

reptiler wrote:

Well, I guess I'll just throw it in, it translated something like "now GNU/Linux": jetztgnulinux.de

A nice idea, though I's suffix the "jetzt", as in www.gnuLinuxJetzt.de. Linux-jetzt.de is a nice name too, but taken.

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Joined: 2007-02-10
how about

how about www.warumgnulinux.de ? (warum = 'why', for those not familiar with german) that would give a nice hint as to what the page is all about.

another thing to start thinking about is whether we'll only have a .de domain, or also .ch and .at (no need for a .li domain, i think Smiling

i could handle the .ch one, if desired, since i'm located in switzerland.

luzi

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yes, that's another nice

yes, that's another nice idea for a domain. Actually, I think it's the best so far.

As for different domains: I don't really follow GGL; how is the French site handled ? If we have Austrian/Swiss domains for the German translation, we should have Belgian/Swiss domains for the French one. However, there is no way we can do this for the Spanish translation, so I say we should stick with one ccTLD each.

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Hallo!I'm not part of the

Hallo!

I'm not part of the German translation team, but I'd like to add something regarding the current localized domain names...

  • The French one: Despite the French translation was initially made by 9 collaborators around the world, it was finished by Olivier only. Later, we decided to implement localized domain names and there was no one but Olivier to decide the French domain. He chose a ccTLD. *
  • The Spanish/Castellano one: Just like the French team, in the end I was alone. I chose a generic TLD. *
  • The Catalan one: Unlike many languages, this one has its own TLD, so we preferred to use a .cat.

* At that moment, it was alright because there were no consensus regarding these kind of things; somehow it was improvised. However, nowadays we state this:

Bylaws of GNU/Linux Copte wrote:

(...) Translation shall be kept linguistically coherent. In the case of wide linguistic families (for example, the Portuguese and Chinese language groups), different variations and dialects shall each have individual translations. (...)

If you're working for the same German translation, what's the reason to use redundant websites? Whether some of you think your dialect differs so much from the current work, we might talk about creating another translation project for your dialect; I see no problem if this is the case.

In order to be as neutral as possible, what do you think about using a generic TLD?

Cheers!

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Well, german dialects don't

Well, german dialects don't differ that much that we need an extra translation for Bavaria for example (which might be the most "extreme" dialect in Germany), it's not like in China that 2 people from different regions will not understand each other, although here the writing makes things easier since there are now just traditional (used here in HK for example) and simplified (used in the mainland) (don't know which one Taiwan uses). The swiss dialect is, as far as I know, not anymore a dialect but regarded a different language. I don't know about Austria.
So I guess that a .de-domain is totally sufficient, since it anyway is mainly supposed to express the language of the site and not the location of the team behind it. And since the language is german (or to say it in german "Deutsch") the TLD .de should be no problem at all, and I don't think anybody in Switzerland, Austria and wherever there are people who natively speak german will be offended in any kind not to have their own TLD for that.

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Hi Gustavo, I'm not 100%

Hi Gustavo,

I'm not 100% sure that I understand you correctly, but I'll try to clarify:

Quote:

Whether some of you think your dialect differs so much from the current work, we might talk about creating another translation project for your dialect; I see no problem if this is the case.

This won't be necessary - all German speaking countries use the same standard written German (with the very minor exception of 'ß' not being used in Switzerland).

Quote:

what's the reason to use redundant websites

Well, I think it makes people feel all cozy and warm around the heart if they can access a website by a TLD which is from their own country. it will make people feel that Linux is something happening 'right here, in my own country'. Maybe I overestimate this, but I *do* think it makes a difference.

Anyone here from Austria to comment?

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Luzi wrote: Anyone here
Luzi wrote:

Anyone here from Austria to comment?

Not that I know of --- I'm from Germany and reptiler is in Hong Kong.

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Hi, Luzi. I understand what

Hi, Luzi.

I understand what you say and I certainly agree with you, but I think we should only have one official website per language because:

  • Each webpage in GGL have a link to the translated version of such a page. Placing more than one flag for the same language is not a good idea, imo.
  • The GGL German-speaking community would be stronger:
    • If you have a single German website, your Search Engine Positioning would be far higher than two or more websites being promoted in your countries independently of each other. The likelihood of being in the top positions for searches related to Linux in German is higher if you stick together.
    • German speaking communities in the free software world are very proactive; I'm quite sure they'll want to have a GGL German Planet at some moment (just like the English and Spanish versions of GGL coming soon)... Are we going to have several planets hosted on the different domains of GGL in German?
  • What are we going to do if some people from the major German-speaking communities want their own domain name too?
  • Also, to be fair we would have to accept getgnulinux.ca, getgnulinux.co.uk, getgnulinux.us... hosting the same website, which would damage the current search engine positioning of getgnulinux.org.

However, I agree with you, so what do you think about this:

  • You may use several domains for the same German translation.
  • But only one them is the default domain name (because of the reasons above). You the translators would have to choose it.
  • The unofficial domain names will redirect visitors to the official one by using HTTP's 301.

This way, you people may promote GGL among your countries with your own ccTLD while sticking together.

What do you think?

Cheers!

PS: Sorry for the delay.

ariadacapo's picture
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It's a tricky subject. I

It's a tricky subject. I really don't understand why the domains are per-country instead of per-language (with the notable exception of Catalan).

I'd agree generally with the idea of a .de domain, and possible other automatic redirections. It's much less work this way.

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Quote: However, I agree
Quote:

However, I agree with you, so what do you think about this:

1. You may use several domains for the same German translation.
2. But only one them is the default domain name (because of the reasons above). You the translators would have to choose it.
3. The unofficial domain names will redirect visitors to the official one by using HTTP's 301.

This way, you people may promote GGL among your countries with your own ccTLD while sticking together.

I agree that this is a good solution. So, the next stop is agreeing on a domain name, I guess...

Ideas so far:

1. warumgnulinux.de ("Why GNU/Linux")
2. jetztgnulinux.de ("now GNU/Linux")
3. gnulinuxjetzt.de ("GNU/Linux, Now"
4. umsteigenauflinux.de ("switch to linux")
5. holensiesichlinux.de ("get linux (polite form)")

a new idea is:
6. linuxfueralle.de ("linux for everyone")

The problem with No. 4, 5 is that they are too long. No. 3 has been favoured to No. 2. The most popular one so far (with two votes, including my own) seems to be No. 1.

opinions?

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PS: gnulinux.de is already

PS: gnulinux.de is already taken

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I'll join in on the vote

I'll join in on the vote for #1. Why GNU/Linux also captures the spirit of the website pretty good, in my oppinion.
As far as I understand a longer title for getgnulinux.org could also be "Why to get GNU/Linux?", right? In that case it would be pretty fit for the purpose.

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i've now finished the main

i've now finished the main work of filling in translations in SVN. i've also added stuff to the translation-tabs file in the 'useful' SVN repo - however, work there is not quite done, because:

* we need a german image with the TLD on it
* i just put 'getgnulinux.de' in all urls, even though this won't be the real URL. it can easily replaced when we settle on the TLD
* i kind of lost the orientation in the second half of the translation-tabs file, because of those sites not translated in all languages (didn't know what to put there). can either of you, olivier or gustavo, maybe have a look at it?

besides that, it's pretty much done, except the pages 'legal', 'contact', 'faq about ggl.o', which are still missing translations.

~luzi

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So, should I go register

So, should I go register warumgnulinux.de ?
Maybe what we can do is
1) register warumgnulinux.de, to avoid hijacking
2) go to a large German forum and discuss a new url there. I speak German but not well enough to choose a domain, and there aren't too many German speakers here ;-) . If someone comes up with a better idea, we might be able to take it (losing 20eur, but that's ok with my finances, knowing how important a TLD is), otherwise stick to warumgnulinux.de

Does this sound reasonable?

Luzi, can you commit any changes so far to the translation tabs file? I'll have a look at it.

Olivier.

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yes, that sounds

yes, that sounds reasonable. i don't know how real the threat of domain hijacking is, but i'll leave that decision up to you.

i thought that the 'gnu/linux' section of the ubuntuusers.de forum would be a good place to make a poll. there should be lots of people there and the forum supports polls. any objections?
http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/forum/47/

ps: i've already committed the translation tabs file.

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i've seen that you have

i've seen that you have already registered warumgnulinux.de, so i went ahead today and started the poll:
http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/77928/

ariadacapo's picture
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thanks
Luzi wrote:

i've seen that you have already registered warumgnulinux.de, so i went ahead today and started the poll:
http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/77928/

You beat me to this thread ;-)
Thanks very much for the thread! I'm curious to see the output.

ariadacapo's picture
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translation tabs

My mistake for the translation tabs... there seems to be slight problems with WebSVN. I've had a look through it and it's perfect - the not-quite-well-organised-or-translated pages are all progressively going to be replaced by the planet website. I'm looking forward to the German translation.

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