Skip to main content
Welcome guest. | Register | Login | Post

OpenArena and Nexuiz CTF teaming and grouping

40 replies [Last post]
libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04

While I'm lining up topics on teaming and grouping, for the purpose of having a last batch of feedback on this before plunging in, this one is for OA and Nex CTF tournaments.

Just as with Tremulous I think these two things should be strived for:

- Each team must contain players from the same continent
- Each team should have at least one experienced player in it (basically avoiding newbies being all that is in a team, making them rather uncompetitive.

So unlike with 1vs1 tournaments we have here a bit more flexibility in evening out the odds between newcomers and experienced players, because this one is gonna consist of largely newly created teams.

So this is who we have currently confirmed for Nexuiz CTF:

- KIAaze
- Plouj
- Jose
- reptiler
- Skateinmars
- chandrahas9
- FruitieX
- Fliker09
- Rad Ished
- morfar
- parp
- efus

One existing team: - Thunder_PT's team

And this is for OpenArena CTF:

- KIAaze
- Plouj
- Skateinmars
- w1zrd
- Jose
- reptiler
- DeathZone
- Fliker09
- vostorga
- efus
- Phenax
- Spyro_boy

4 existing teams:

- Valherus
- BRUTAL
- EGUSS
- Thunder_PT's team

Offline
Joined: 2007-11-22
You put filipecerk and xdrt

You put filipecerk and xdrt as teamless but they're part of my team, so you only have to split in teams a perfect number of 12 guys for Nexuiz and a not so perfect number of 11 for OA. Eye

libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04
Thanks, fixed that now.

Thanks, fixed that now. Spyro_boy was also added for OA CTF now so we have 12 unteamed, perfect for 4 groups.

I think this is a good moment to lock that then. No more confirmations for OA and Nexuiz CTF!

libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04
I'm considering forming CTF

I'm considering forming CTF teams of 4 even though games are 3vs3 to allow for one player backup when possible in case of a team member not showing up.

When GrEenmArine first proposed this I dismissed it, but then I realized that it doesn't actually add almost any extra complexity because according to our rules each team gets points for their matches exactly the same way as an individual player gets them in 1vs1 matches. So no matter what goes on inside of the actual team, no matter who plays which match, it wont reflect on anybody else but the team in whole. At the end the tournament winner is a team and they just vote on who among them is the best candidate for the main gamefest prize.

We may not have exactly 4 players per each team, but we would have them for most. Some existing teams may perhaps have only 3 players, but that's fine. They're responsible for showing up all even more considering that they teamed up before hand instead of being selected now.

So.. if nobody objects and especially if anybody expresses it's a good idea I'll proceed with selection of teams with up to 4 players in each, for both Nexuiz and OA, taking location and having at least one experienced player per team as my guidelines.

Also, please, everyone who is on this list tell me where you are (location):

- KIAaze
- Plouj
- Skateinmars
- w1zrd
- Jose
- reptiler
- DeathZone
- Fliker09
- vostorga
- efus
- Phenax
- Spyro_boy
- chandrahas9
- FruitieX
- Rad Ished
- morfar
- parp
- Diomedes
- killgenerals

Also, there may be some cross polination between OA and Nex CTF teams, as in if a player is confirmed for both OA and Nex CTF he may be coupled with some of the same team members too to strengthen their team work.

Offline
Joined: 2007-11-06
Geographically I am in

Geographically I am in Finland, but when it comes to a server I'm not bothered to play on American servers for CTF.

Offline
Joined: 2007-09-10
US. I got a particularly

US. I got a particularly good ping to ladder.ga.us.planetnexuiz.com:26001.

Whether 3, 4, or 20 players, I would like to actually play in CTF. I don't mind sitting out occasionally, but I do prefer to play even if it is with other weak players. In fact, I prefer a weak team of 3 where I play every round than a strong team of 4 where I will sit out or feel pressured to sit out during tough contests.

libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04
Jose wrote: In fact, I
Jose wrote:

In fact, I prefer a weak team of 3 where I play every round than a strong team of 4 where I will sit out or feel pressured to sit out during tough contests.

So you would prefer if teams had just 3 members instead of 4 with 1 backup?

Offline
Joined: 2007-09-10
If the backup doesn't play,

If the backup doesn't play, then I don't think the tournament is affected if one team has a backup and another doesn't (unless we were going to have back-to-back marathon matches). If that is the case, then I was just stating my preference to be in a 3 member team. I don't see why I would care if some others want to be part of a rotating line-up. That would be their preference.

Of course, I prefer to be backup than to sit out for sure Smiling

Am I understanding your question (and proposal)?

libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04
I think you do. The idea

I think you do.

The idea was simply to allow a buffer for the potential problem of no-shows. If there is a backup player then he can replace one that didn't show. Who is gonna be backup at any match is something a team should decide for themselves.

The disadvantage of this is that we'll end up having less teams, and we're already short on teams.. So I'm not entirely sure yet..

Offline
Joined: 2007-09-10
Once I... If I get

Once I... If I get eliminated from the CTF tournament, I may be able to serve as backup if desired.

There may not be too many no-show problems if the scheduling is done through private arrangements that each team finds convenient. If a time must be forced for whatever reason and a player is MIA.. or for whatever reason a player doesn't show up by a certain time, then if this time was announced, potential backup players might be hangging around the forums or irc ready to jump in.

We might have a page where upcoming team matches that have already been scheduled can be listed. Then anyone that is interested in serving backup will know when to show up and wait. They may receive a private discrete invitation if they post that they are available or there might be a quick lottery (scissor/paper/rock) as a way to pick from among those lingering.

Offline
Joined: 2007-09-10
France GMT+1

France GMT+1

libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04
Alright, looks like it may

Alright, looks like it may be best to do standard 3-member teams and allow them to do private arrangements as much as possible as long as they follow the rules (seems like this worked quite alright for 1vs1 Nexuiz on sunday). This makes things flexible.

And if it does happen that someone is missing a team can at their discretion decide to use someone else as backup or reschedule/cancel for another time.
----

Btw, to all, we don't have enough people giving their locations here. I'm afraid this will mean I'll have to form some random teams or based on best guesses regarding location. Sorry people, but when you confirmed you should have also read that confirming means "staying tuned", being around these forums when needed! If you aren't, well you're doing yourself a disservice.

I can't be omnipresent and omniscient! And no I wont spam you with gazillion of emails just to get your attention to every single question we ask! Be here or be on IRC!!!

libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04
OK, let's team up the

OK, let's team up the unteamed OpenArena CTF players.

They are as follows: KIAaze, Plouj, Skateinmars, w1zrd, Jose, reptiler, DeathZone, Fliker09, vostorga, efus, Spyro_boy, Atma and johpunk.

Who of them are more experienced?

Who would like to team up with whom?

EDIT: Also, what is your location. Each team member should be on the same continent.

Ideal is to have at least one good player per each team, but even if this can't be done, if we just put together decent combinations I think it'll be good. Unlike with Tremulous, I have a feeling existing OA clans aren't *that* tough of a challenge since at least half of them formed just before the tourney. So even if we do random formations here we could have some good guesses. Smiling

I'm looking to form this ASAP so that the OA CTF team can start. Tonight if possible!

There will be 4 teams out of the above players. One will be unteamed, but then (s)he can be a backup player to any team that'd have him/her.

With 4 teams and 5 clans we have 9 teams total. That'd be one group of 4 and one group of 5.

libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04
Team 1

Team 1 formed:

w1zrd
vostorga
Spyro_boy

EDIT: This team is now known as "AirFrag".

Each team can choose a name to be known as. Otherwise they'll just be referred to as "Team X" where "X" is number.

libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04
Since there is a bit of an

Since there is a bit of an imbalance between one group of 4 and one of 5 I'm proposing groups to be of 3 teams each if there are 9 teams total.

The disadvantage of this is that all teams will place one match less compared to other tournaments, which can impair the number of points that the winner of the OA CTF tourney can get for eligibility for the main ultimate title of the game fest.

Offline
Joined: 2007-09-10
>> Also, what is your

>> Also, what is your location.

US

>> I'm looking to form this ASAP so that the OA CTF team can start. Tonight if possible!

This is one game where I would like some time to get to know my teammates and the game (yes, I'm very new to this game). I would like some time for us to practice and maybe develop a bit of strategy. It may take a bit for the teams to organize and get online at the same time (though being on the same continent, this may not be that difficult). Then I would like to play a least a few practice games out on the net. Maybe this can all be done in a few hours, but probably it will take more like a day and a half from the time the initial team is posted. It may take longer if some members don't become easy to reach.

Any team that is ready and willing should play, but keep in mind that even in 1 on 1, some confirmed people still haven't been able to arrange for a convenient time to meet a single opponent, much less with several other players. As much as we would all like to get this going, ultimately team matches may take the longest to schedule. .. and we should keep in mind standby players once a time has been scheduled (so times should be announced).

Offline
Joined: 2007-09-10
>> Since there is a bit of

>> Since there is a bit of an imbalance between one group of 4 and one of 5 I'm proposing groups to be of 3 teams each if there are 9 teams total.

One thing going strongly for this idea is that scheduling 6 people may be noticeably easier than scheduling 10.

>> The disadvantage of this is that all teams will place one match less compared to other tournaments, which can impair the number of points that the winner of the OA CTF tourney can get for eligibility for the main ultimate title of the game fest.

I'll have to read up to see what you mean, but isn't the important thing the average? [Do you mean that there would be a penalty "adjustment" applied because of too few matches or something?]

As I understand it, total points that count for UW are divided by the number of matches used to accumulate those points.

Offline
Joined: 2007-09-10
To all potential

To all potential teammates:

In US Eastern Time, I am available almost the whole day except for the 3-7 am block. That's the case for the next 2 days. After that I have increasing commitments but I have a lot of flexibility rescheduling if I know with one day anticipation.

Offline
Joined: 2006-03-28
Well, I do hope we can put

Well, I do hope we can put together a "Team Asia", maybe there's somebody from Australia around who could be sort of adopted to Asia. ;-)

libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04
Jose wrote: As I
Jose wrote:

As I understand it, total points that count for UW are divided by the number of matches used to accumulate those points.

That is the ratio system we were considered and then rejected due in part to some of the issues you raised with it as well. Ultimately we came to this: http://www.nuxified.org/topic/determining_the_universal_gamefest_winner

So the one with most points in the end wins, and that's it. We're then merely attempting to standardize and balance the tournaments to make it as fair as possible.

However you're right about the averages in terms of a balance between matches played and points won. Less matches means less points. It basically comes down to that smaller tournaments in general earn less points, and the final conclusion was that this is acceptable. Smaller community response for a particular tournament can be blamed for this and since each player can decide for themselves in which tournaments to participate in, it is pretty much up to them whether they'll settle with CTF only or go with both CTF and 1vs1 or even both CTF and 1vs1 for both OA and Nexuiz. More tournaments = bigger chances to win the big one if you win either of the tournaments.

So since the 3-player groups are in big part a result of having too few teams for CTF, making it essentially a smaller tournament, it is justified.

Any further discussion of the points system here is offtopic though. And that's already been decided anyway.

Offline
Joined: 2007-09-10
>> Any further discussion

>> Any further discussion of the points system here is offtopic though. And that's already been decided anyway.

Then allow me to send you an email or show me where to post. We really are tossing out the baby with the bath water by dumping averages. I think it is a simple misunderstanding and already wrote a reply that I hope is simple enough.

There is a time when cutting goes a little too far. I really think there was a misunderstanding. Everything I considered in detail was based on averages. It was an attempt to fix some shortcomings of simple averages in various scenarios. As is, the tournament is great except if you toss out averages.

The reply is warm and waiting for a message box.

libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04
Here is how unteamed (so

Here is how unteamed (so far) OA CTF players are charted per location:

Asia:

reptiler
Fliker09

US:

Plouj
Atma
Jose
Johpunk (Venezela)

EU:

KIAaze
Skateinmars
efus

Africa:

DeathZone

So it looks like the best way to form teams is based on location, unless someone states other preferences. US team ends up having one backup, they can internally decide which 3 of them play a particular match. EU team would have only 3 members.

Most problematic are Asia and Africa. They're very far away yet for both there isn't even a minimum of 3 players. Some gut feeling tells me to team up DeathZone from Africa with reptiler and Fliker09 from Asia as a "high ping team".

On the other hand, perhaps DeathZone would have better ping to Europe considering his country, Morocco, is North Africa, which is sort of, at least on the map, close to south Europe.. but that would leave Asian team with player less, in fact unable to proceed.

Any suggestions?

Offline
Joined: 2007-09-10
I can suggest two

I can suggest two possibilities.

-- I accept being the default odd man out for team Americas. Then go and unite Africa with Asia.

-- I accept being part of team Asia. Have Africa become the 4th member of team EU. On US servers, I would have a great ping to help out team Asia a bit. On EU servers I would have a bad ping like other Asia members except that it would still not be that bad in comparison.

I don't mind either choice. Put if up for a vote if you think that would help.

Offline
Joined: 2006-03-28
I actually like your 2nd

I actually like your 2nd suggestion. And anyway, we're on one team on Tremulous already, so why not also here. ;-)

libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04
Well the second one seems

Well the second one seems like a good idea to me as well.

So then the teams would look like this:

Team 1 (Asia):

reptiler
Fliker09
Jose

Team 2 (US):

Plouj
Atma
Johpunk (Venezela)

Team 3 (EU):

KIAaze
Skateinmars
efus
DeathZone

Then all 3 teams are complete. Team Asia can play on either US or EU servers depending on where their average ping is better. For example, it may be an advantage if Team Asia plays on US because then Jose will have a good ping while the difference for reptiler and Fliker won't be so big compared to EU servers. Also note that in CTF it's not just about frags, but a bit of strategy too. You need to capture the flag most times, not kill most times, so if you can manage to avoid being shot that'd be a good way to go as well. In other words I think ping matters a little bit less here.

Team 2 is fine, all US, good ping on US servers. Edit, actually one player here is from Venezuela so he may have a bit of a ping disadvantage. However, considering each other team has some sort of a handicap with this regard, I'd say it's quite balanced.

Team 3 is EU so all of them except maybe DeathZone would have good ping on EU servers, but DeathZone might actually have a better ping than some US player on an EU server. One of them can be a backup and they can decide which 3 play which match.

Overall, from my perspective this looks good, so if nobody minds this is how we can proceed. We have these teams then:

Team 1 (Asia)
Team 2 (Americas)
Team 3 (Euroafrica Eye )
Valherus
BRUTAL
EGUSS
Thunder_PT's team
FM|

Split that in two and we have 2 groups. Smiling

Offline
Joined: 2007-11-19
I'm not in ASIA! I'm in

I'm not in ASIA! I'm in Europe, Republic of Moldova!

P.S. In AirFrag team are W1ZarD and Spyro_boy... No chance to win them...

Offline
Joined: 2006-03-28
Close enough...
Fliker09 wrote:

I'm not in ASIA! I'm in Europe, Republic of Moldova!

Close enough. ;-)
Anyway, if maybe one of the others "accidently" is in Asia we maybe can switch. Otherwise I'd tend to say "never mind".

Fliker09 wrote:

P.S. In AirFrag team are W1ZarD and Spyro_boy... No chance to win them...

Well, if that's so maybe there's a chance to separate them. Otherwise I guess everybody else has to try to step it up a notch or two, or ten.

Offline
Joined: 2007-09-10
My understanding of the

My understanding of the situation and the concerns I had have been cleared up for the most part through (still ongoing) private exchanges with libervisco. I am not sure this precise second what the rule will be in final form, but I think it will be a good working system. The rules will probably be very close to what they had been at the time I first posted concerns (I had some misunderstandings).

libervisco's picture
Offline
Joined: 2006-05-04
Ah, sorry about that

Ah, sorry about that Fliker09. It is a bit on the asian side, but indeed, it's Europe. However if we put you on the Europe team the asian one wont have enough players and the Europe one will have too many.

I guess "Team Asia" (not really Asia anymore), is mixed then, unless someone has a better idea.

Offline
Joined: 2007-11-06
lol
Fliker09 wrote:

P.S. In AirFrag team are W1ZarD and Spyro_boy... No chance to win them...

hihi, I never played CTF so I would be rather lost as what to do, when to do it and most of all, where to do it...
I know there is a flag to carry, but that's about it Smiling

Offline
Joined: 2007-09-10
I would like to drop out of

I would like to drop out of the Armagetron Advanced, Nexuiz CTF and Open Arena CTF tournaments.
The main reason is that I probably won't have a permanent internet connection this month, so scheduling matches might get even more complicated than it is now.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.