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So what do you really want???

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libervisco's picture
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This is an honest question. I want to improve this site even further. I want to make it the best. I want to make it the choice of hundreds of active members for discussing GNU/Linux. Even if it takes doing something no other site on the web done yet, so be it.

What do you want? Let yourself to your imagination. Gosh, some of it must be possible and realizable.

We need to offer something irresistible here, an irresistible Free Software support experience, better than our competition, or anything we've had so far, better than tutorials and reviews.

I am not afraid to ask. Don't be afraid to answer.

Thanks

tbuitenh's picture
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Maybe you should ask the

Maybe you should ask the users of other software help sites Eye

libervisco's picture
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Because everyone here

Because everyone here already has what they want (or else wouldn't be here)? Smiling

Well.. asking on other sites is a bit tricky because if I just join to ask that question, even if I don't mention Nuxified.org, someone may soon figure out my true intention..

I occasionally surf through the questions & suggestions forums on other sites to see what are people asking for or having problems with though. But I haven't found much so far..

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Joined: 2006-03-28
How about a

How about a Nuxified-edition of some distro? Wouldn't that be something really cool?
Or a Nuxified-LiveCD, with some really useful stuff.

I know, it would be like "just another distro" or "just another LiveCD" since it isn't like there's just a few of both, but I guess this might be the first forum to offer something like that. I'm not sure about this though, but it could be a cool idea.

libervisco's picture
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Actually your idea strikes

Actually your idea strikes good with me reptiler, because I've been quite dissatisfied with all existing GNU/Linux distros at some point. Right now I'm using Ubuntu, and for now it's good, but it's not exactly the ideal I imagined (and described before on these forums).

Maybe, if we could gather enough interested people around that project, we could do an installable live-cd distro which shows off some of the cool ideas that some people here come up with, as well as the interesting traits of the Libervis Network maybe.

Hmm maybe it can even be based on your own distro? Smiling

One issue that would have to be solved for that though is hosting, until we're able to get dedicated..

AndrewB's picture
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Jason's EliteLinux.COM

Jason's EliteLinux.COM started out that way, it was a fora to support their distro, then they became popular due to demand at the time for Linux Guru. After that it was dropped and they kept it as a fora, then later joined with Sykkn's Linuxforums.ORG.
We could do a distro, but I don't think it would give us the spark we need... There are too many out there nowa-days, and it is doubtful we could come out with something to overtake distros such as Ubuntu, Fedora, Knoppix, Puppy.

I am still thinking..

a thing's picture
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endorsement

How about the endorsement of the FSF and/or distros?

libervisco's picture
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Our endorsment of them or

Our endorsment of them or their endorsement of us?

Either way it probably has some requirements. A note in our rules and guidelines already endorses the Free Software but in practice we had to be more neutral. FSF endorsement could scare some people away while bringing others. I'm not sure where would that end up putting us.

Hmm, but it's something to ponder and think about. I'm interested if you've got any specific ideas how would we do that.

Thanks

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About my distro
libervisco wrote:

Actually your idea strikes good with me reptiler, because I've been quite dissatisfied with all existing GNU/Linux distros at some point. Right now I'm using Ubuntu, and for now it's good, but it's not exactly the ideal I imagined (and described before on these forums).

Maybe, if we could gather enough interested people around that project, we could do an installable live-cd distro which shows off some of the cool ideas that some people here come up with, as well as the interesting traits of the Libervis Network maybe.

Hmm maybe it can even be based on your own distro? Smiling

One issue that would have to be solved for that though is hosting, until we're able to get dedicated..

Well, for me it wouldn't pose any sort of problem to offer a Nuxified-version of my distro. Actually I'd be pretty proud to be given that honor. Since it's 100% free stuff (which is an important point for me, I don't want to have non-free software in my distro or a spinoff I might do from that, like the binary-distro I'm thinking about) it should also bring with it the spirit we are talking about all the time, so you could say it's truely Nuxified. ;-)
The problem I see, besides hosting of course, is that this distro is pretty hardcore, since it's basically not much more than LFS, just installed by a couple of scripts instead of typing everything by yourself. Though this is a big help already I just don't really think that it's distro for the masses, more for people who really like tinkering in their system and compiling everything.
Also some evaluation would be good before blasting it out. Just today I uploaded version 0.2.1 to a friend's server and gave the URL to a few people. So I hope to get a little feedback from that side. So far I can say that I tested the complete compiles (you can activate some optional packages which are not included in the LFS-book in a config-script) with all 3 GCC-versions on my box (running within my current system) and also the default settings in QEmu (so that's more like a real install since it really uses the LiveCD instead of my system), and these tests were successful (though I found a bug with the startup-script for dcron, but that's no problem to fix). But it would be pretty good to have some more tests on some other machines than only mine or QEmu. I will have a go with that old notebook I bought for this some time soon (it was already running 0.1 successfully) and, as mentioned, hope that I'll get a little feedback from these few people who said they're interested to test it. But there I don't know yet what kind of machines they will use for that.

Well, so much for this. That said, I'd like to ask if somebody is interested to offer some hard-disc-space (4GB are more than enough) and CPU-time to test my system. Since for now I'm using a friend's server I'd prefer not to post the URL in public. He has unlimited traffic, but since he's also hosting his site on the same server I don't want to stress his line too much. But if anybody is interested please feel free to send me a message and I'll gladly give you the link and also a short info on what to do.

libervisco's picture
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I guess whether your distro

I guess whether your distro would be suitable or not would depend on how much effort would we be able to collectively put into making something more polished out of it. Otherwise it may be a better idea to take an existing already stable and maybe even polished based and just repackage it into a custom distro.

Anyway, I'm not downloading much these days, but if it's not too much to download I'd be willing to give yours a try. How big is it?

Thanks

a thing's picture
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them to us

Them endorsing us.

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460MB
libervisco wrote:

How big is it?

The image-file has around 460MB.

tbuitenh's picture
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Being a help site, I think

Being a help site, I think it would make most sense to make one rescue CD the "official nuxified endorsed" one, so we can standardize answers to problems that require a rescue CD. That distro would of course be DONTPANIC.

libervisco's picture
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Good idea Taco! Now I have

Good idea Taco! Smiling

Now I have to go try DP. Smiling

a_thing wrote:

Them endorsing us.

That would be cool, but I imagine it'd be hard with FSF. What do you think would we need to do in order for them to actually want to endorse us? I'm not sure that our anti-proprietary advertising policy (to make sure, google can go away soon) and mention of Free Software in our rules is enough. Is it?

Thanks

a thing's picture
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ask

You'll have to ask them.

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LiveCD
tbuitenh wrote:

Being a help site, I think it would make most sense to make one rescue CD the "official nuxified endorsed" one, so we can standardize answers to problems that require a rescue CD. That distro would of course be DONTPANIC.

That's also a good option. As mentioned before a Nuxified-LiveCD with lots of useful tools would be a good alternative to our own distro here. Actually I had your project in mind when I mentioned this since I also followed your progress here and had a look onto your website some time ago.
It's somehow a cool thing, we got two different distro-projects here on Nuxified, yours (as far as I remember) based on Gentoo, as LiveCD with lots of tools, mine as an installer for a modified LFS-system. Though mine would also be capable to be made a LiveCD full of tools, it's not the main aim.

libervisco's picture
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Actually, the "DON'T PANIC"

Actually, the "DON'T PANIC" is made by a_thing, not tbuitenh. Smiling

But yeah, I never thought about it, but it's really great to have two knowledgeable distro starters around here. Smiling

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Oh, then I got that point

Oh, then I got that point confused. No offense.
Well, it's sunday, my brain is just on standby today. ;-)

But still, I think this might be a good thing. For me at this time the most suitable utility-LiveCD is Slax, with some additional modules. The problem there is that you have to pick your own modules to create a really useful utility-CD (on the other hand it's good that you can pick additional modules, that keeps the base small) and that's not something anybody wants to have to do first. Of course somebody who already uses it can make suggestions on which extra modules to use, but that's no one-size-fits-all glove.
For a Nuxified-CD (no matter if this a distro based on my system, or a LiveCD based on DONTPANIC) we should discuss a list of software we want to have in it, we will have to find a way to host it and we will need to test it. That all included software has to be free is no topic I guess, my system mostly has GPL- or LGPL-software with a few BSD-style-licenses, and I guess that a_thing also only has free software.
So it will just be the point of what kind of functions we want to offer, if we want to have X and things like that. I don't know if DONTPANIC includes X (would have to check again), but my EasyLFS does not, and I don't know if any future version will (although that of course could be done for a Nuxified version).

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re

distro is great idea. I'm interested. It could be a group project with smaller groups working on individual parts i.e. networking, repos and such.

1)linux app reviews a database of peer reviewed software and ranked. this will be very helpful and popular

2) create a simple app. which adds a utility piece of software. i.e. maybe an linux app finder

3) giveaway something regularly i.e. nuxified logo t-shirts - for increasing new members

4) make a widget/gadget for nuxified and/or firefox extension. Not sure on what, but i will leave that to the boards to resolve. -

If its been done, skip it.

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For point 4 I guess I could

For point 4 I guess I could offer something.
A while ago I've made a few search-plugins for Firefox 1.5 (and then later also for FF2). With a few little adjustments it shouldn't be a big deal to have a nice little search-plugin to search Nuxified. The FF1-plugin works in both FF1 and 2. The FF2-plugin doesn't work in FF1, but in IE7.

As far your distro-suggestion: In terms of repos and things like that (actually everything related to changing the system after it's installed) is still not even in planning (as far as my EasyLFS is concerned). So this would be a completely new thing, but might be interesting work. As said before, in case we want to use my distro or a modified version of it, in the current state it's pretty hardcare and totally back to the roots. So it would depend on what kind of distro we would want to offer, that then dictates how much additional work we will have to put into it.
Anyway, if necessary and wanted, I can provide the scripts I wrote for the installation and also some info on some other things I did (which isn't that much).

libervisco's picture
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We would really need a very

We would really need a very good reason to justify having our own package repository and our own package format. This is huge work which requires a lot of dedication. Wouldn't it be better to make it compatible with some of the existing package formats. If Debian is too complex maybe Arch's pacman would do?

As fr0zenmon said at the end of his post, "if its been done, skip it". If existing package management tools and even existing packages, as well as other components in the system have already been done and are working good and we can live with it, then we should adopt that and be compatible rather than reinvent it.

That said, when it comes to creating a distro of our own I think these are the main options we can consider:

  • Make it a simple repackaging of an existing distro, remaining fully compatible with that distro, and making new releases just after the main distro has been release. Basically it would just offer a different set of packages customized our way.
  • Base it on reptilers EasyLFS, which would be quite close to making it from scratch. This is where more of further low level decisions are to be made, such as which package system to use.
  • Base it on a_thing's DON'T PANIC as not a general purpose distro, but simply a rescue disk endorsed and recommended by the Nuxified community.
  • Base it on both? Implement functionalities and package set of DP into the EasyLFS powered general purpose LiveCD doubling the purpose of the livecd as a rescue disk.

But to be fair and honest there is the sacred question everyone should ask when considering creating a new distro, even us:

What is its real purpose and how will it be significantly different or better than other distros?

If we're doing it as just an me-too project in order to get attention, chances are we wont get far.

Luckily though there really are quite a few people here with some excellent and unique ideas so there is still a chance for the answer to the above question to be positive. Smiling

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Well, I can only speak for

Well, I can only speak for my own project, but one of the goals is also to get people more interested in the details of Linux. Meaning that I encourage people to give it a try, but also look at where it came from, the original LFS-book. I think that book is great lecture and can give you a deeper understanding about your system. And of course I also want to help people to enjoy that kind of system (I really love it, at this time I think that for my own use I would use anyhting else than LFS, or EasyLFS of course ;-) ) a little quicker than when they follow the book since my scripts eliminate most of the work (means more or less all the typing) you have to do. Typing in all the commands takes up a lot of time, and is a common source for mistakes. That is eliminated with EasyLFS. That's how it started, I wanted to automate it for myself for the time I think about a full reinstall. Of course you can also use Gentoo, but there you have, as far as I understand, this tiny little base you don't compile yourself (please correct me if I'm wrong, I never actually used Gentoo), but having really everything compiled on your system is just plain cool, and it works really efficently. I can't recall any distro using so little memory.

So, for EasyLFS the purposes are having a more comfortable way to install a system based on LFS (as mentioned some time before there are differences, like additional filesystems, the book just mentions ext2 as far as I remember, in my list there are also ext3, ext4, reiserfs, jfs and xfs, and some additional useful packages, like alternatives to vim, iptables, RPM and some other stuff, and of course 3 different GCCs ;-) ) and also to invite people to learn more about their system and maybe try the original LFS some time, because it's great education when you not just follow the commands but also read the texts around these.
So, it is, in my oppinion, far away from something that just screams "I wanna make my own distro" (as said, I wanted to have something for myself and then decided why not share it) and of course nothing for Linux newcomers. On the last point I see advantages and disadvantages. On one hand it might attract experienced users, but not the less experienced ones, the ones we maybe would like to strengthen in their believe and who we want to help to develop and fascination and friendship with Linux.

Well, in what way is EasyLFS different? Well, it's one of the few distros that's installed from source and by that it offers you a great basic system to build on.
How is it better? Good question, I wouldn't really say it's better. Propably all distros have their right to exist because there is a certain userbase with exactly the requirements covered by that distro. So I believe (or at least hope) that there are some users out there who really think that Linux from Scratch is a great thing but maybe would like a few changes, maybe exactly the changes I offer (most of the additional stuff is optional anyway), or at least some of them.

I think here might be a good reason for DONTPANIC, because my project can be seen as "just another distro", but DONTPANIC can be something really useful. A nice CD full of useful tools. As mentioned before, currently I'm working with Slax with a few additional modules (by the way, since EasyLFS also uses the Linux-Live-Scripts, this would also be possible with EasyLFS), but having something that already comes with everything you need (well, that might be hard since everybody needs and likes different tools) would of course be better.

libervisco's picture
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Some good points there. I

Some good points there. I am usually not the one who'd say GNU/Linux has too many distros although asking the above question still seems useful. So I agree with your explanation. EasyLFS actually does sound like something that could be really useful for someone like me, for example, since I tried LFS once and never finished. An easier and faster way through it would be great. Smiling

I'll have to try it. Feel free to PM me the download URL if it's available and I'll try to download it tonight (sometime after midnight Central European Time cause my connection is faster then).

I also have to try DP to see how it feels like.

I'm thinking maybe the ideal would be to base our livecd on EasyLFS and combine stuff from DP into it. Of course, standalone DP would still be recommended for a low-footpring light X-less way to rescue your computer. Smiling

a thing's picture
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claifications
reptiler wrote:

I guess that a_thing also only has free software.

Of course.

reptiler wrote:

DONTPANIC includes X (would have to check again)

It doesn't, that would be major bloat. The USE flags are:
-X -opengl -gtk -cups -doc minimal livecd jfs reiserfs xfs ntfs unicode

kode's picture
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Regarding

Regarding packaging/repositories, I should point out that the Linux Standards Base project endorses RPM as the standard package format.

I also have a custom distro (not based on LFS) which I originally built as a project to update CoreDistro to more current specs (that beta is available for download if you are curious). After a year of work, my distro is about 95MB fully installed base system, and is used in custom appliances. It is not a GUI distro.

Unless we come up with something extremely useful, I don't think building/distributing yet another distro will assist the Linux community as a whole.

Something to think about: there are THOUSANDS of great software applications which don't exist in the common distro's repositories as pre-compiled packages. Nuxified might do well to help package those applications for Ubuntu/Debian and Fedora, etc. I'd even host a repository mirror here in Canada, and I can talk to some contacts I have at archive.org about mirroring as well.

Also, don't forget about the KSplash and KDM/GDM themes I made for nuxified.org last year...

libervisco's picture
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A distro is still largely

A distro is still largely just an idea we're playing around. Smiling Packaging exotic unknown software sounds like a nice idea as well, although something tells me large distros like Debian and Ubuntu will soon enough have 99% of everything, even exotic software, covered. And games are already package in efficient ways (autopackage, independent debs or just .run install files).

Oh and thanks for reminding us about your ksplash and kdm/gdm themes. We should use those for our distro if we do it. Smiling

Thanks

libervisco's picture
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I am rereading this thread

I am rereading this thread in an attempt to re-scoop the ideas and make some constructive Nuxified sub-project plans, and I wanted to comment further on the endorsed distro idea.

You say EasyLFS is unlikely to have X in some of the future versions, though you mentioned above in an earlier post that you might do a binary-only distro, which is friendlier to users than source based.

So I'm thinking, if we choose EasyLFS as a base for Nuxified GNU/Linux LiveCD it will have to be binary and have X out of the box. But then we need to choose a package manager for it, because otherwise I think it'd be much like a source based distro anyway (if it'll require people to install software by compiling). We could go for the simplest possible option; something like slackware pkgtools, but that lacks dependancy checking. Another nice option left is pacman from Arch, which in fact is probably superior.

However, even that wouldn't give us the amount of available packages that Debian has..

Anyway.. we could endorse and possibly even sponsor this project more as a showcase livecd and an ongoing experiment. So we could discuss in forums various things we could try to do that others haven't done yet and try to implement that in our distro. The outcome probably wont be very stable, but would be stable enough as a livecd and for advanced users. However, it would be exciting because we could test various ideas out.

And who knows, maybe then other distro makers see what we're doing with these ideas and decide to build a stable implementation for their own distros. The end result is that Nuxified.org community gets a bit of attention and contributes something nice to the FOSS world at large.

Bottom line of doing things like this on Nuxified.org could be that we are not here just a GNU/Linux help community, sitting around answering questions. Instead, we are pro-active, doing creative experiments, play with ideas and ultimately contribute them to the FOSS world. Smiling

Hmm I'll try to keep to that thought.

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Yes, the "original" EasyLFS

Yes, the "original" EasyLFS will most propably never contain X, I think it's just beyong the scope of it.
A binary-distro, which might be based on EasyLFS, could of course contain more packages, even X and a nice colorful WM/DM like KDE.

The earliest release which might be capable to be transformed into something like that might be EasyLFS 0.3, since now many of the early problems have been solved. I really hope EasyLFS 0.3 to be a system that can run without any problems. And actually I'm pretty confident. I have a current version running in a QEmu-image and so far it really works fine. The guy who helps me with the SELinux-integration even took it that far to install X and KDE on it, and it runs fine. That he tried advanced packages and not only the shipped stuff is a really good thing, that proves that EasyLFS is capable to be a fully usable system.

I didn't spend much time on thinking about the binary-distro yet, so far I had imagined RPM as package-manager, since I've built some RPM-packages with checkinstall before and I guess that also would be the way I would have the installation-packages be built.
A problem here might be the installer. Of course this could be something that works similar to the current scripts, one script to select the software you want, and another script that installs it, but I don't think that this is really suitable for such a distro.
Anyway, I wanted to have a look into ncurses, I just need to find time for it.

libervisco's picture
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That's good to hear. I

That's good to hear. I still haven't tried EasyLFS full install, but I hope to do it when 0.3 is ready. If enough people would be interested in doing it then we can base a livecd on it. I guess most of the job is basically installing EasyLFS, setting up a package manager on it and then installing the stuff that needs to be included on the livecd, tweaking it a bit and create such livecd with some livecd creation tool..

We'll see.. it'd be good to discuss some potentially novel ideas for such new project so that we can add more meaning to it and therefore attract more people to it, although being based on EasyLFS already makes it a bit unique.

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Joined: 2006-11-20
a link

a couple of articles i came across that might jumpstart brainstorming:

http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/07/14/181225
http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1052
http://wskills.blogspot.com/2006/12/top-10-linux-problems.html

some ideas
- mobile/portable apps for usb drives and phones
- work on solving current problems

i am still a novice so this is just some ideas being tossed out.

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