What do you or don't you like about Ubuntu the most?

One of the strong points about ubuntu, is the fact that they have apt-get, so people can easily use synaptic, and not have to go to the command line, also it is a lot faster on older machines too (compiling wise)

True, just like my Suse system comes with YOU, YUM and APT as available PMSs. However, given how integrated APT already is with Debian and Ubuntu setting up a portage repository for Ubuntu would be a lot of work which many people would not see the reason to use. Also it would take up a fair bit of extra server space to host to repositories.

Portage on Ubuntu? That would be adventurous.

But really, what's the point of that aside from having a (poor) option to compile on Ubuntu gentoo-style without loosing the quick option of binary installed packs using apt-get.

If you want a distro that supports both source installs and binary packages try Arch GNU/Linux

I'll have to try arch (/me goes to download), as well I'll have to try portage on ubuntu someday

I never had that problem with apt-get, but then again I usually used synaptic because my way of installing software is "I need software to do $TASK" and not "I need $PACKAGE".

Hey, that would be cool, a package manager that works like this:

# packagegod I need a browser
A web browser, a file browser or an image browser?
> a web browser
The following are available:
(1) firefox (recommended)
(2) epiphany (recommended because you have gnome)
(3) konqueror (for KDE)
(4) dillo (lightweight)
> 1
Installing firefox... done.
Thank you for using packagegod.

But considering the amount of free software that exists, something like that would be very difficult to implement...

# packagegod I need a browser
A web browser, a file browser or an image browser?
> a web browser
The following are available:
(1) firefox (recommended)
(2) epiphany (recommended because you have gnome)
(3) konqueror (for KDE)
(4) dillo (lightweight)
> 1
Installing firefox... done.
Thank you for using packagegod.

That does sound cool, though with the HUGE number of different free software out there, and the many questions that could be asked it'd be hell to write. Though I'm sure one could hack together a search frontend which acted somewhat the same.

And during the process of development many different people would violently disagree with each other on how things should be set out, how some words are spelt, the grammar as well as issues of good userfriendliness. I think for the sake of retaining out sanity and not angering English teachers, APT, YUM, YOU, Portage, Emerge and whatnot else ought to suit people fine.

Interesting suggestion nonetheless...

That is like saying we should never have left the commandline because there would be the Gnome vs KDE flamewars. Oh, and never stop using punch cards because of vi vs emacs...
New technology always leads to debate about how to do it "right". Debate is part of the development process, there's no reason to try to avoid it. By the way, look at this thread: what does ubuntu do right, what does it do wrong? We're in exactly the type of debate I mentioned!
And that brings us back to topic.

I'm all for it... but think of the English teachers! They'll lynch us!

For those looking at a portage style system for Debian, actually there already is one! It's called apt-build. I've never tried it myself, but apparently it works fairly well.

Oh and I almost forgot, what do I like/dislike.

Well the list of what I like would be too long to go into here. What I absolutely *hate* is when Debian packages go so far away from upstream sources as to be almost totally different applications. For example, Postfix documentation is hit and miss at best due to the Debian package being so heavily modified. This can make it really tough to get support on their (Postfix's) mailing list. There are several other examples very similar to this situation as well.

I didn't know about that. Wow, well, Debian sure is gonna be everything and be able to do anything.

Still though, I'm not sure how well does it work compared to real portage or to the Arch Build System etc..

It definitely may be an awesome compromise for Debian users though.

I would say that is my primary dislike for debian and debian based distros as well, and the whole development philosophy from which this stems (not ideological, mere practical and technical). I like it better when packages are "vanilla" so to say, just compiled original sources or at least with the least modifications to it. That's why I like the slackware approach and I think that Arch is also following it.

Another thing is the fact that dpkg not only does installations (AKA package management), but configurations as well. I know this is useful for many people, but I again like the slackware/arch approach which let's you be the one to edit clean well commented config files. I think that goes with the KISS prnciple.

Debian is therefore a pretty complex distro in that sense. It's great for the right type of people (which alot people seem to be) and is as such a great base for desktop newbie friendly distros. It is still also high on my list of preffered distros. I will probably try debian testing at some point soon, even though I'm probably settling with arch.

I have Arch downloaded and just haven't had time to burn it and try it. I think I may need to read up on it a bit first as it seems a whole different world from anything I'm used to.

Actually, it may not be so strange for someone coming from Debian, I think. It uses pacman package manager which, like debian apt-get, checks dependancies and has some other apt-get equivalent features. The difference is that Arch is bleeding edge so with the current release you'll be already on kernel 2.6.15 and it requires that you edit most of the configuration files to have it running.

Anyway, I just remembered something related to this:

# packagegod I need a browser
A web browser, a file browser or an image browser?
> a web browser
The following are available:
(1) firefox (recommended)
(2) epiphany (recommended because you have gnome)
(3) konqueror (for KDE)
(4) dillo (lightweight)
> 1
Installing firefox... done.
Thank you for using packagegod.

There is a company which aims to develop a technology that would use search results from existing search engines and allow you to search by asking questions. It is Kozoru.

Although that's still different from package managers it may be possible to develop a search function in a package manager that would allow you to search like this. Then you would get your wanted software as a result and the manager would simply ask you if you want to install it. Maybe if some company with resources (AKA money) could develop something like this as a front to apt-get and other package tools (pacman!).

Hm, since this topic started about ubuntu, here's a thought. Canonical is a company with resources. Maybe they could do something like the above. What do you think?

Hmmm. Maybe it can be done in a very simple way by limiting a kozuru search to freshmeat.net.

Well, that might be one way to do it, but that's then best as an idea for a new search site instead of a search frontend to a package manager.

Heh, maybe I would do it at some point if I could get involved with Kozoru somehow and had the know-how.

Yes, pacman is what initially caught my attention. It's just been so long since I had to learn a new way, I'll likely end up lost with anything..lol

Kernels aren't a problem; I usually run my own built versions and keep up with the latest -RC or git except on critical systems where I stick with the current stable kernel, patched with the -ck patchset and whatever else suits my fancy at the moment.

# packagegod I need a browser
A web browser, a file browser or an image browser?
> a web browser
The following are available:
(1) firefox (recommended)
(2) epiphany (recommended because you have gnome)
(3) konqueror (for KDE)
(4) dillo (lightweight)
> 1
Installing firefox... done.
Thank you for using packagegod.

Hmm, this looks similar to what synaptic does/can be made to do. Or am I missing something else entirely?

Actually, synaptic is pretty close to that kind of user friendliness, but I wouldn't say it's the same thing at all. The idea here instead is an interface to a package manager that would allow you to ask it questions and give orders as if you were talking to it, on human terms.

It's what Taco (tbuitenh) in the quoted text descriped. I'll quote him again:

This "packagegod" command would be that kind of program.

Even that name would be pretty funny and suitable.

Ahhh, ok. So synaptic on steroids is more like it. Basically taking any regex as input and looking for certain keywords to highlight on.

I don't know, but apt-cache search works well enough for me. then again, I'm old and set in my ways...lol

Well sure I don't have much complains myself either. Once you get to know things in GNU/Linux it's really easy to get around without the godlike tools like that.

On Arch there's a simple pacman -Ss <keyword> feature that picks up words from package names and their descriptions which are usually to a point. So it's pretty easy to, for example, find all text editors by just typing pacman -Ss editor or something in those lines.

The packagegod would still be cool though, that's for sure. :glasses:

Agreed, if nothing else as you said, the name alone would be worth it!

First off, greetings to all, as I'm new here...

Oddly, my Ubuntu likes and dislikes generally come from the same area - simplification. I really like a simple (some would say bare) desktop environment - no widgets, flashy-thingies or other so-called "eye candy" to get in the way or distract me. All the notifications I need/want, I put on my single panel (taskbar).

I dislike simplification when it starts limiting my options. While I don't go to the extremes of Mr. Torvalds ("Just tell 'em to use KDE!"), I do think that some of the GNOME developers are getting carried away with the "too many choices might confuse the poor, addled user" philosophy. For example, the lack of configurability in gnome-screensaver (as opposed to xscreensaver) was justified by one of the devs, so: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=316654

Since discovering this bit of arrogance, I have been closely watching any developing news re: KDE 4.

mark