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Why don't you use Linux? And, Why not Mac OS? - Additional sections in GGL

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Gustavo's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-11

Hello!

(Yes, yet another proposal)

I consider we should include two sections in GGL:

  • Why don't you use Linux?
  • Why not Mac OS? (I won't elaborate on this because Olivier already did). Or, we might also merge "Why not Windows?" and "Why not Mac?": Why not Windows nor Mac OS?.

We would also have to change the current style of the navigation bar, as the new contents wouldn't fit.

Why don't you use Linux?

This section aims to demonstrate there's almost no reason to stick to Windows or Mac OS, for example:

  • I need to use a Windows-only program: Install wine; even privative software such as Photoshop and Dreamweaver works in Linux through wine. Also, if you have a new computer, you may think about virtualization because it's more reliable.
  • I need to play games that were made for Windows only: See above.
  • I'm using another free operating system: Great choice!
  • I'm happy using Windows/Mac: Are you sure? Do you hate Freedom? Do you like virus?

I've been thinking that perhaps libervisco could open a forum about why people don't use Linux. This would have two huge advantages:

  • It would help us to keep track of the most common reasons on why people are not using Linux. It will make GGL improve.
  • Help this people to use Linux happily.

Once this forum is open, we should promote it a lot.

What do you think?

Cheers!

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Joined: 2006-03-28
Gustavo wrote: Why don't
Gustavo wrote:

Why don't you use Linux?

This section aims to demonstrate there's almost no reason to stick to Windows or Mac OS, for example:

  • I need to use a Windows-only program: Install wine; even privative software such as Photoshop and Dreamweaver works in Linux through wine. Also, if you have a new computer, you may think about virtualization because it's more reliable.
  • I need to play games that were made for Windows only: See above.
  • I'm using another free operating system: Great choice!
  • I'm happy using Windows/Mac: Are you sure? Do you hate Freedom? Do you like virus?
  • Wine is a good tool, but some programs require special attention and quite some configuration. Not every newcomer can manage that or wants to learn how to do all that first.
  • I think using Wine for games isn't that good yet. I tried it a couple of times and was pretty disappointed.
    Since KQEmu is free now it might even be better to play in a Windows which runs in QEmu, though I didn't try that yet.
    Alse here the configuration-issue mentioned above applies again.
    That's why I still have Windows 2000 on my box as secondary boot-option.
  • Well, don't have much to say about that. Using another free OS (which most likely would be BSD, see my post in this thread) is a good thing, and if the user is happy with it i see no reason to change to Linux.
  • I think this point is a getting a little personal. I think some people might be offended by reading questions like "Do you hate freedom?".
Gustavo wrote:

I've been thinking that perhaps libervisco could open a forum about why people don't use Linux. This would have two huge advantages:

  • It would help us to keep track of the most common reasons on why people are not using Linux. It will make GGL improve.
  • Help this people to use Linux happily.

Well, are there any users here that do not use Linux? I know that for some (or most) here Linux isn't the only system. I also have a Windows-install sleeping on my disk for gaming purposes. (Also see above point about gaming).

Gustavo's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-11
well...

Hi, reptiler!

reptiler wrote:
Gustavo wrote:

Why don't you use Linux?

This section aims to demonstrate there's almost no reason to stick to Windows or Mac OS, for example:

  • I need to use a Windows-only program: Install wine; even privative software such as Photoshop and Dreamweaver works in Linux through wine. Also, if you have a new computer, you may think about virtualization because it's more reliable.
  • I need to play games that were made for Windows only: See above.
  • I'm using another free operating system: Great choice!
  • I'm happy using Windows/Mac: Are you sure? Do you hate Freedom? Do you like virus?
  • Wine is a good tool, but some programs require special attention and quite some configuration. Not every newcomer can manage that or wants to learn how to do all that first.
  • I think using Wine for games isn't that good yet. I tried it a couple of times and was pretty disappointed.
    Since KQEmu is free now it might even be better to play in a Windows which runs in QEmu, though I didn't try that yet.
    Alse here the configuration-issue mentioned above applies again.
    That's why I still have Windows 2000 on my box as secondary boot-option.

Yes, that's why I've mentioned virtualization. Also, GGL already talks about dual-boot.

If this is accepted, we would explain it better, but that was just an example.

reptiler wrote:
  • Well, don't have much to say about that. Using another free OS (which most likely would be BSD, see my post in this thread) is a good thing, and if the user is happy with it i see no reason to change to Linux.

I think you misunderstood me: In fact, if s/he's using another free OS is alright (hence I said "great choice").

reptiler wrote:
  • I think this point is a getting a little personal. I think some people might be offended by reading questions like "Do you hate freedom?".

I was joking Smiling . Jokes apart, if someone tells me "I'm happy using Windows/Mac", I'd just answer, "If after reading GetGNULinux.org you're still happy using Windows/Mac, congratulations for working in the environment you feel comfortable with".

reptiler wrote:
Gustavo wrote:

I've been thinking that perhaps libervisco could open a forum about why people don't use Linux. This would have two huge advantages:

  • It would help us to keep track of the most common reasons on why people are not using Linux. It will make GGL improve.
  • Help this people to use Linux happily.

Well, are there any users here that do not use Linux? I know that for some (or most) here Linux isn't the only system. I also have a Windows-install sleeping on my disk for gaming purposes. (Also see above point about gaming).

That's the point: Find out why people aren't using Linux. As I said, we would have to promote such a website to encourage people to tell us why they don't use Linux and by promote I mean to talk about it outside NXFD.

Cheers!

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Joined: 2006-03-28
Since I'm a mod on a big

Since I'm a mod on a big german forum I could try to launch a poll there why people use Windows and not Linux. Anyway, everybody there knows me as an advocate of Linux and free software in general (I also have my "official" EasyLFS development thread there) and people there mostly use Windows since it's a general help-forum for computer-related topics.

If that would help to get some information it shouldn't be a problem to launch that.

Also, I didn't misunderstand you on the point about using other free OSs. I actually agree. If somebody uses another free system it is really good, since he/she/it ;-) also at least seems to know about the advantages of a free system. And as said, if the user is happy with that system, I don't see a reason why persuade him to change to Linux, although GGLs main aim is to promote the usage of Linux. Although this is, as far as I understand, by promoting freedom in the use of software, which of course also applies to other systems.

Gustavo's picture
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Your idea sounds great,

Your idea sounds great, reptiler!

If the majority of you people agree, I'd try to do the same through Spanish-speaking communities.

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Well, if nobody objects to

Well, if nobody objects to this I'll launch this tomorrow.

libervisco's picture
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Opening a forum that asks

Opening a forum that asks people why they don't use GNU/Linux sounds like a good idea actually, at least to try. If you guys still think this would be good, I'll open it.

Also, everyone else feel free to comment on that idea as well.

Cheers

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Joined: 2006-03-28
I guess before we go out

I guess before we go out into the world to start something like that we should come up with a possible list of answers. That will make evaluation a lot easier in the end I think.

ariadacapo's picture
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Joined: 2006-07-13
I am afraid this new

I am afraid this new section might make readers uneasy because they feel they are being designated as fools. The trick is really that almost no normal user will choose their operating system - they have better things to do. Trying to tell them that they're wrong is dangerous. I always keep in mind the following digg comment on GGL:

a digg reader wrote:

Windows works for me, stop telling me why it shouldn't

While I don't believe it actually really applies to GGL, I'm constantly afraid that we drift away here.

However I'm really interested in the poll results. Maybe we could learn something really interesting here. It might give us good hints as how to change GGL, especially the Linux page (where we could give the information people are looking for straight away).
Possible answers to the poll: (just quick thoughts). Note that most people probably have misconceptions about GNU/Linux.
* I can't play 3D games
* I'm afraid to lose my files
* Installing an OS is too complicated
* I need Microsoft Office
* I'm afraid my devices won't work
* I don't trust free software
* I don't care at all

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Joined: 2006-03-28
Okay, I created the poll.

Okay, I created the poll. Let's see what it'll show.
But I guess we have a good audience there. First of all, more than 90% of all users there use Windows (according to AWStats), and second, it seems people there like polls. :-)

I've posted the following possibilites:

  • Most games are not available for Linux.
  • I'm afraid I won't be able to use my files anymore.
  • Installing an OS is too complicated for me.
  • This change requires too much learning.
  • I need a specific program (please specify).
  • I'm afraid my hardware won't work.
  • I don't trust free software.
  • I don't care about Linux.
  • Something else (please specify).

I was tempted to make it multiple choice, but then just changed the question to what is the main reason not to change to Linux and didn't allow multiple choice.

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Joined: 2007-02-10
care to give a link?

care to give a link?

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Joined: 2006-03-28
Sure, no problem:
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Joined: 2006-03-28
Little preview on the poll

After the first nearly 24 hours we have 18 votes so far.

  • Most games are not available for Linux. - 7
  • I'm afraid I won't be able to use my files anymore. - 0
  • Installing an OS is too complicated for me. - 0
  • This change requires too much learning. - 4
  • I need a specific program (please specify). - 4
  • I'm afraid my hardware won't work. - 0
  • I don't trust free software. - 0
  • I don't care about Linux. - 1
  • Something else (please specify). - 2

The attached discussion shows that there are quite some people who use Linux to run a server (some of them on older machines), some are just happy with Windows and others write programs for Windows.
But, as you can see, the #1 reason not to switch is gaming, which is actually exactly what I expected.

Well, let's see how it continues. I'll keep you updated.

libervisco's picture
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Quite interesting. Looks

Quite interesting.

Looks like we should get that gaming project on Nuxified going and showcase great GNU/Linux games through these mini competitions. Laughing out loud

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Okay, let's have another

Okay, let's have another update.
So far we have 57 votes.

  • Most games are not available for Linux. - 14
  • I'm afraid I won't be able to use my files anymore. - 2
  • Installing an OS is too complicated for me. - 0
  • This change requires too much learning. - 17
  • I need a specific program (please specify). - 10
  • I'm afraid my hardware won't work. - 1
  • I don't trust free software. - 0
  • I don't care about Linux. - 6
  • Something else (please specify). - 7

Games have moved down to 2nd place, the top-position is now taken by the effort to learn to use the new system.
Also some people really don't seem to know that Linux works with most hardware and can handle most files.

But at least everybody seems to trust free software.

libervisco's picture
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I think that the perception

I think that the perception of it being too hard is slightly unfounded. Sure it takes a bit of learning curve, but every change does. It is not all about command line anymore though. They should just give a livecd a spin and I think there'd be less votes for "too much learning".

But yeah, these are the objective results. It helps to know what to focus on.

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Right now we're at exactly

Right now we're at exactly 100 votes, so I think it's time for another update.

  • Most games are not available for Linux. - 27
  • I'm afraid I won't be able to use my files anymore. - 3
  • Installing an OS is too complicated for me. - 1
  • This change requires too much learning. - 28
  • I need a specific program (please specify). - 15
  • I'm afraid my hardware won't work. - 3
  • I don't trust free software. - 0
  • I don't care about Linux. - 12
  • Something else (please specify). - 11
ariadacapo's picture
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Very interesting... I

Very interesting... I didn't think games would come up this high.
What are the demographics of the site, if they are known? I suspect 20-somethings working in IT would give answers very different from stay-at-home mums.

Coming back to the original subject: are we going for this new section? I must say I'm very uneasy with the idea of telling people why they're wrong (why they "have no reason to not use GNU/Linux")...

Olivier.

libervisco's picture
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Olivier wrote: Coming back
Olivier wrote:

Coming back to the original subject: are we going for this new section? I must say I'm very uneasy with the idea of telling people why they're wrong (why they "have no reason to not use GNU/Linux")...

Good point actually.. I guess then, and especially if you feel it wouldn't be good, we can do without that section.

Gustavo's picture
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I don't want to demonstrate that anyone who doesn't use Linux is

Hi, Olivier.

ariadacapo wrote:

Coming back to the original subject: are we going for this new section? I must say I'm very uneasy with the idea of telling people why they're wrong (why they "have no reason to not use GNU/Linux")...

I don't want to demonstrate that anyone who doesn't use Linux is wrong (actually I don't believe in absolute truth, but on perspectives).

Many people feel like switching to Linux, but they don't because they have misconceptions about GNU/Linux. These are the people I want to address, not those that know what Linux is and still prefer Windows, MacOS or another free operating system.

I propose a FAQ-like section; "Frequently Used Reasons To Not Make The Switch" (FURTNMTS) Smiling

The first two reasons would be:

  • I'm just happy with Windows/MacOS; that's it: If you know what free software is all about and you're still happy using privative software, go ahead; we won't question your decision.
  • I use another free operating system: That's great!

Then we'd go on...

  • Linux is too difficult: In the past, Linux was not user-friendly at all, but nowadays this is absolutely untrue. Blah blah blah...
  • Blah blah blah...

Basically, the goal is to deny the most common misconceptions about Linux.

Cheers!

PS: I'm afraid I explained this in a confusing manner previously (specially because I said that there's almost no reason to not make the switch). I hope this is clear now.

libervisco's picture
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Now that you clarified the

Now that you clarified the idea I like it.

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I'd like to throw in

I'd like to throw in another update about the poll. It's still going on and we're approaching the 250 mark. At this time we're at 233.

  • Most games are not available for Linux. - 67
  • I'm afraid I won't be able to use my files anymore. - 8
  • Installing an OS is too complicated for me. - 1
  • This change requires too much learning. - 52
  • I need a specific program (please specify). - 37
  • I'm afraid my hardware won't work. - 9
  • I don't trust free software. - 4
  • I don't care about Linux. - 28
  • Something else (please specify). - 27
Gustavo's picture
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What a
ariadacapo's picture
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liberviso wrote: Now that
liberviso wrote:

Now that you clarified the idea I like it.

me too. I'll let it roll in my head for a couple of days ;-)

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Well, I've been waiting for

Well, I've been waiting for a while to get some more votes in, and now we're at 368 votes!

  • Most games are not available for Linux. - 108 (29,35%)
  • I'm afraid I won't be able to use my files anymore. - 16 (4,35%)
  • Installing an OS is too complicated for me. - 1 (0,27%)
  • This change requires too much learning. - 92 (25,00%)
  • I need a specific program (please specify). - 52 (14,13%)
  • I'm afraid my hardware won't work. - 12 (3,26%)
  • I don't trust free software. - 5 (1,36%)
  • I don't care about Linux. - 43 (11,68%)
  • Something else (please specify). - 39 (10,60%)

So it's mostly that people want to play and/or are too lazy to spend some time to get used to the new system. ;-)

ariadacapo's picture
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Re-write of "Windows to Linux" page

(Thanks for the update on the poll...)

I took some time to think over these ideas. As always I am very reluctant to add content to GGL... If we don't keep it short we are going to lose readers.
So I thought we could re-write the From Windows to Linux page with the above ideas in it. With appropriate unobtrusive screenshots, we could help dissipate the misconceptions that using GNU/Linux requires lots of learning.

I don't have a precise structure in mind (I'll give it more thought), do you have proposals?
A few remarks:
* we can't do anything about games
* we shouldn't deal with "not caring about Linux" in this page (that is the role of the Windows section + new page on FS)
* we must keep honest and criticize GNU/Linux. This is really an advantage over other places on the web. Readers trust us because we do this.

This re-write would be a good opportunity to "show off" the ease of use and attractiveness of GNU/Linux...

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